Oracle's Java new release cycles

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Oracle's Java new release cycles

Postby Leejjon » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:22 am

This probably isn't directly game related, but I wonder what you guys think of the following:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/03/0 ... rain_qcon/

From what I understand:
OpenJDK will be free and Oracle has some promises to port some stuff that makes the Oracle JDK good to the OpenJDK. Apparently there is a way to run it on Windows but it's some third party that facilitates OpenJDK builds for Windows:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/599 ... windows-os

Google is barely keeping up with Java versions at the moment. It took a very long time to bring Java 8 to Android, Google App Engine (and other clouds that support Java like AWS) and GWT. I don't really believe they will update all of those in time to Java 9, 10 and 11. Maybe they will only support the LTS versions like Java 8 and Java 11.

Although the LTS versions of the Oracle JDK will no longer be free:
https://medium.com/codefx-weekly/no-fre ... 50192745fb

  • For Android Google already switched to using the OpenJDK (even though they still have to pay 8 billion to oracle for using Java the last years). They are probably safe if they keep using the OpenJDK in the future, since their ART implementation is completely different they are not that desperate for security updates either.
  • For Google App Engine it took them quite long to switch to Java 8. I really like App Engine but it seems that the market in general prefers Docker/Kubernetes solutions with a JDK packaged in a docker container. That way using which JDK would be a problem for the developer rather than Google. So I wouldn't be surprised if Google will discontinue App Engine at some point and point us to using containers. I do hope they keep App Engine though as I find their maven plugin to do deploys really nice.
  • Development for GWT is going pretty slow since Google made it open source. I don't believe they even have the capacity to keep updating versions that work with Java 9, 10 and 11.

Either way the write once run everywhere thing that libgdx has will be hard with this future if different technologies that libgdx depends on make different choices.

What do you guys think?
http://leejjon.net

My Bluff Poker app made with libgdx (MOE for iOS):
- On Play Store: https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... er.android
- On Apple App Store: https://itunes.apple.com/app/id1299542538
Leejjon
 
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Re: Oracle's Java new release cycles

Postby ukkr » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:28 pm

Leejjon wrote:[*]For Google App Engine it took them quite long to switch to Java 8. I really like App Engine but it seems that the market in general prefers Docker/Kubernetes solutions with a JDK packaged in a docker container. That way using which JDK would be a problem for the developer rather than Google. So I wouldn't be surprised if Google will discontinue App Engine at some point and point us to using containers.
.............
What do you guys think?

Your words about App Engine and Google are "surprising" and I should disagree, sorry. App Engine is not bound to Java -- Java is just one of the acceptable languages to design Apps for GAE. Even for GAE Standard you can write your code in Python, NodeJS, PHP, Go. You should definitely know the capabilities that GAE Flexible provides in terms of supported languages -- Java is just one tiny peace of them.
Saying that Google will get rid of GAE in favour of D/K-- is basically incorrect, even if in theory Google considers Java a killing feature of GAE( which is definitely not). It's just another option for Google's client to architect, design, build and deploy their cloud applications. E.g. GAE Standard is not a D/K, but a sandbox with specific runtimes of the corresponding target languages. It has absolutely different deployment, scalability/ manag-ty, and pricing strategies comparing to D/K ( it can even scale to 0 instances when not in use)+ there are op-nities to run it for free.
And don't forget, for Google the support for the most recent versions of Java or even JDKs was never a goal. E.g. their Android version was bound for so long to java 6. The same with App Engine -- they don't care about new "killing" features from Oracle, instead they care about reliable and fully tested and integrated version, 100% proved to be compatible with their cloud infrastructure and services, greenlighted by their guys.

So for Google, personally, i see no problems at all with Oracle's madness. Even more, considering the legal issues between crazy Oracle and Google -- i wouldn't be surprised if they "deprecate" official support of Java for Google Cloud at some point. Oracle is too greedy company to support them and rely in business on their mad decisions...

P.S. All of this is not related to LibGdx. :)
P.P.S. What is really frustrating is a dependency of some other languages like Kotlin, Groovy, etc on JDK, JRE and Java. It would be almost impossible for such languages to rely on commercial Java and it doesn't make sense to rely on OpenJDK.
ukkr
 
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Re: Oracle's Java new release cycles

Postby Leejjon » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:30 pm

I don't think I said App Engine was only bound to Java. I was kinda thinking out loud there and maybe I understood some things wrong regarding the use of Java on clouds.

I actually asked them about the future of Java on app engine and they answered me:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic ... _rnDjc4fQY

ukkr wrote:So for Google, personally, i see no problems at all with Oracle's madness. Even more, considering the legal issues between crazy Oracle and Google -- i wouldn't be surprised if they "deprecate" official support of Java for Google Cloud at some point. Oracle is too greedy company to support them and rely in business on their mad decisions...

This was exactly what I was thinking.

Found some more info on the licensing:
http://blog.joda.org/2018/08/java-is-st ... -cost.html

Even though it doesn't have any direct effect on libgdx, different Java versions can be a pain. I used to have a project using libgdx with an android, robovm and gwt frontend and java backend on app engine which ran pretty well. It was really nice to have all those on the same Java version. But I'm affraid there's no way all of those are going to keep up at the same speed.
http://leejjon.net

My Bluff Poker app made with libgdx (MOE for iOS):
- On Play Store: https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... er.android
- On Apple App Store: https://itunes.apple.com/app/id1299542538
Leejjon
 
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:55 pm


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